Red Bull Racing driver Max Verstappen felt the move by Scuderia Ferrari driver Sebastian Vettel at the start of the Singapore Grand Prix, was not a clever one for someone who is fighting for a world championship.
Having got a great start from the front row, much better than that of pole sitter Vettel, the Dutchman then found himself being squeezed by the German, as he tried to recoup lost ground.
Unfortunately for all concerned, Verstappen also had a quickly advancing Kimi Raikkonen on his left, and as Vettel squeezed harder, there was nowhere for the Dutchman or the Finn to go.
The result was a three-way collision that took both Ferrari drivers and the Red Bull out on the first lap, robbing them and the fans of a possible six-way battle for victory.
“My start was a little bit better than Seb and I think he saw that so he tried to move to the left to squeeze me out of the line a bit but he did not know Kimi was on my other side.
“I think it wasn’t the smartest move and you can’t make excuses for it when you are fighting for a world championship.
“Kimi had a great start and was alongside me very quickly, I didn’t try and defend that as I knew it would be a long race, he then started to squeeze me also, at which point there wasn’t a lot I could do.
“The rear wheels are wider than the front so I was locked in the sandwich with no way out, even when I braked.”
Despite Red Bull looking strong in Singapore throughout the weekend, with data pointing to a real possibility of them taking the win at the Marina Bay Street Circuit, Verstappen kept calm about the fact he was denied the chance to fight for victory on Sunday.
The 19-year-old advised that the fact that it was not his own fault or an engine or car failure that took him out of the race, made the situation much easier to take.
“If I made a mistake myself I would be upset or angry but there was nothing I could do today. We all lost out in the end so we all experienced some pain rather than someone making a mistake and then being able to carry on.”
Verstappen instead chose to focus on the high point of the weekend, which was that Red Bull were fighting up there with both the Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team and Ferrari on merit this weekend, and the Dutchman hopes they can continue that performance at the next round in Malaysia.
“We have to take the positives from the weekend, we were quick in qualifying and the practice sessions with good potential going into the race, we can hold onto this and move on to the next race.”
Funniest moment of 2017, watching Vettel try to bully his way past Max, only to destroy his best chance of winning the WDC.
Max had plenty of room. He didn’t *have* to hit Kimi at all…
And – as this (ironically blurry) photo clearly shows – certainly not because of Vettel:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d40aa2b914ed1182b9cf36c1817d8931c017a73f964ecaa07cb5c6d86acc4dc1.png
To the contrary, Max was trying to bully/squeeze Kimi, as the photo above clearly shows.
While Vettel was almost completely past Max AND a couple of meters away from him.
Watch the video. Kimi has space to his left. Vettel is dive bombing Max who has to move out of his way. Max didn’t have space. Kim had space. I’ve seen the onboard stills from Max. Vettel was 1m away and NOT past Max so Max HAD TO move left. Vettel was going so fast to the left that he was in front of Max about 0.5s later. Max can’t see where Vettel will end up. He’s got to look forward, left and right. So while Vettel might have missed Max, it’s not possible for Max to know that. He has to move left and Kimi should have also moved left. Kimi had 3m to his left, Max had 0m to his left as Kimi was there.
…
Here is a non blurry image of just before the point of impact. It’s clear that Kimi has space, Vettel is 1m away, moving to his left across Max and not yet past him. That yellow next to Kimi is track that Kimi can go onto. He has a lot of room.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/69159c57cd46c0147a69d038afdf4263421fa1748741a520896f3a92cedd733c.jpg
This photo is just before Max chooses to run into Kimi. Seb is still a meter away from Max, and almost entirely in front of him.
All Max had to do was lift slightly *before* he chose to interlock his wheels with Kimi’s.
100% Max’s fault.
It was not Kimi’s responsibility to move to his left.
It ***WAS*** Max’s responsibility not to steer into Kimi.
All Max had to do was lift slightly *before* he chose to interlock his wheels with Kimi’s.
100% Max’s fault.
Right, so Max has to move out of Vettel’s way, but Kimi doesn’t have to move out of Max’s way. Yeah right. How absolutely biased can you be? If Max was supposed to back out when Vettel cut to the left, Kimi had to back out when Max cut to the left. Really. It’s not rocket science.
Max did lift you liar. And if Max should have lifted, then Kimi should have lifted. And Vettel should have not moved left. Why is Max the only person who has no space left or right, but is the only person who had to take evasive action? Of course, because you are a biased liar.
If Max lifted, as you say, then all he had to do was not interlock wheels with Kimi. Which he *always* had at least a meter of room to avoid doing.
Seb always gave Max more room than Max gave Kimi.
Max didn’t have to move out of Seb’s way, just as Kimi didn’t have to move out of Max’s way.
Nor was Max “supposed to back out” – but it would have been a far better option than choosing to run into Kimi.
Wow, even when talking to yourself. You have nothing of value to say. Thanks for proving that.
Get your glasses checked. Max didn’t move left until Vettel moved left. Really, go watch the video. Either you are blind or totally biased. Either way it’s funny to read this BS.
If Max didn’t move left then Vettel would have hit him. Max DID brake, he confirmed it, and the video shows it. You are looking at the photo where Max HAS lifted. He had to lift to avoid Vettel. That caused the interlock with Kimi to become a crash. Kimi had space, Vettel had space but you see Max as the only guilty party. You are either dumb, blind or a Max hater. Either way it’s a pointless discussion. You will ignore the fact that Kimi could move left and didn’t. You will ignore the fact that Vettel moved left first and started the whole situation. You will ignore the fact that Max did brake. You are just picking the 1% of the situation that suits your bias. Forget talking to me. You are way too dumb for my time. In summary, if you ignore all of the facts that prove you wrong then yes, of course you are right. What a list. Go away.
Hilarious coming from someone known for his lies and made up facts. You only post fake news that you present as “facts” to support your delusional rantings. As far as intelligence that is really over the top funny. Coming from a guy consistently proven wrong and whose only response is insults and deleting the posts proving that you are wrong. You are a tr0ll and nothing more. GO AWAY
If anyone knows about lies, it is you.
How many times have you accused people of being wrong and to stupid to talk to you? Here is a clue: it is every post. Remember you saying you have never been wrong? Remember, you bragging how your steel trap analytical mind had made a HUGE discovery and you claimed that I live in Indianapolis because I went to the F1 races there? You made a really big deal about your triumph of logic. Never mind that there are planes, trains, and automobiles to get to a race. If, you do go to one. By your logic then you must live there. So, I must have lived in Monaco, Monza, Barcelona, Watkins Glen, Indianapolis, and Austin. So, I am real curious on how your delusions explain the fact that I live 12 miles from the beach and took a nice drive up the coast yesterday. None of that in Indianapolis. You really need to read what you wrote again and let it sink in. “Forget talking to me. You are way too dumb for my time. In summary, if you ignore all of the facts that prove you wrong then yes, of course you are right. What a liar. Go away.” You have been proven over and over again as a liar and a fraud. How about even a morsel of evidence to back up your claims about yourself and your brother. Your silence will convict you!
Get your ego checked. You are blind to the truth and totally biased. Really, go back and read your posts. That is why it is always funny to read your BS.
Hey, rocket scientist was one of the many name changes you made. When ever it gets to hot for you, as you build your reputation for being a liar, fraud, and tr0ll. HAAAA! I love the irony of your insult.
I’ve watched the video many, many times.
Max initially moves right to try to keep Seb from sliding over. Then – when Max sees Kimi blasting by him – he moves back hard left to squeeze Kimi. But Max was too late. And he gave Seb all the room he wanted, so Seb took it.
Then Max ran into Kimi.
Any car that steers into another car which is going straight down the track is at fault for the collision. Period. If, as you hypothesized, Max hadn’t moved left and Seb ran into him, then that crash would have been Seb’s fault, 100%.
Just as if Kimi hadn’t moved left and Max ran into him then it would have been Max’s fault, 100%. Which is *exactly* what happened.
Max gave Kimi *zero* meters of room (aka, “ran into him”) – while Seb never even got within a meter of Max. So, if “giving no room” is the cause of the accident, then clearly the blame lies with Max.
Kimi didn’t *have* to move left – even if he had the entire track to do so.
Max *did have* to keep from steering into Kimi.
And Seb always had at least a meter of room (and usually much more) between himself and any other car.
You mean Max moved right 1 meter and then left 1 meter, while Vettel moved left 10 meters, and Kimi went left 3 meters to pass Max up the inside. Yes, Max was out of control crazy. He didn’t hold a straight line but deviated by 1 meter either side.
I think the problem is that no one has told Max the secret rule of F1, being if Vettel is coming you get out of the way. You brake, move away, park your car if you have to. Vettel is the king and everyone must move aside for him.
The funny thing is that if Max held his ground then Vettel would have hit him hard. Vettel could not see where Max was, as that is his blind spot. He just went left, hoped that Max would move, and didn’t see that Kimi was blocking the other side. So if Max didn’t move left, Vettel would have hit him anyway. So it would have also been Vettel’s fault. No matter what Max did.
Haaaaa. Seb never got within a meter of Max? Wow you really are blind. Here is an image just before the crash. Seb is within a meter of Max. The rear tires in F1 2017 are 405mm, so 40cm, so less than half a meter. And there is about one read tire width between Max and Seb in this REAL picture. So Seb was less than half a meter from Max.
If Max had stayed 1 meter to his right, then he would have avoided Kimi and Vettel would have crashed into him. So Max moved to get away from Vettel, causing him to drift into Kimi’s path. And since Kimi had space to move left, he SHOULD HAVE.
You say that Max gave Kimi no room, and yet in this image Kimi has room to his left. Only Max has no room to his right (because of Vettel) and no room to his left (because of Kimi).
So what you are saying is that Max should have driven straight and let Vettel hit him, crashing them both out of the race. And probably Kimi also. Wow. And on that same basis Kimi should have driven straight and let Max hit him, crashing him and Max and Vettel out of the race. So Kimi did the right thing, causing a crash that he could avoid by moving left. WOW.
When Vettel moves left it’s Max’s fault for trying avoid the accident. He should have caused a crash, and then scored no points for his team and said to them “It’s OK, I was in the right.” Wow. I mean WOW. You are as dumb as a piece of $#!t if you really think this. I mean you are so absolutely crazy it is amazing. Beyond crazy. A massive liar and a biased fool.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e56203b2c0f3260d3954cdd4f9916c1cb98aecaf301fba1e2a527e297cb300cf.jpg
Your hatred of Vettel makes it impossible for you to have a valid and creditable opinion. Nothing but hate spewing from you and you will deny any facts that refute it. It is a sign of desperation from someone proven WRONG!
Wrong. This photo is just *after* the collision: note Max’s deranged front left tire (clearly more than “camber”). All of my comments refer to the time *before* Max hits Kimi (because, obviously, Seb and Kimi are less than a meter apart after Max turns Kimi into Seb). Regardless, at this point Seb has passed Max, and – according to you – Max has lifted, so there is no danger of collision.
Max, and Kimi, and every other driver have every right to drive in a straight line down the track if they so choose. This is irrefutable. If *anyone* in *any other car* hits them, then it is that driver’s fault. Period. ***Regardless*** of how much room Max, Kimi, et al has to either side of them when the wayward car runs into them.
If Max’s objective was “to avoid a collision” then he should have lifted ***before*** he interlocked wheels with Kimi (as braking *after* interlocking is wholly stupid and can have but one obvious outcome). The photo I posted at the top of this thread shows that Max clearly had ***at least*** two meters of room next to Seb in which to accomplish this. But instead, Max chose to squeeze down onto, and then run into, Kimi.
Max moved right almost to the center of the track. Kimi moved left just over one meter. None of this was “crazy”.
If Seb had hit Max, then it would be Seb’s fault. But Max hit Kimi, so it’s Max’s fault.
And if Max’s concern was “trying to avoid a collision” then he should have lifted ***before*** he interlocked wheels with Kimi. The first photo in this thread shows he had over two meters of space in which to accomplish this.
No that image is from a frame by frame view of the situation. It’s BEFORE the crash. Wow you said you watched the video, did you mean with your eyes closed? But you have posted a TINY and BLURRY photo as your “proof”??? I can’t be laughing harder than I am now.
You seem to think that Max should have been looking left to see where Kimi was AND looking right to see where Vettel was. You seem to think that Max has an obligation to have two heads and see in two different directions. That is madness. There were two drivers who only needed to keep an eye on one other driver, that being Vettel and Kimi. Yet they ran into him (or in Vettel’s case would have run into him). But you are blaming the guy who had to look out for two cars, on either side. Wow you really don’t understand motor racing, do you?
As I have said before, talking to you is a waste of time. You are a liar. You didn’t watch the video, or you did watch the video and you are making up lies. Or you are crazy. Either way there is no point discussing this with you. The facts and you are so far apart it is pointless.
Just so you are 100% clear, THIS is the image JUST after the crash. Kimi’s wheel flying up in the air is the clue, in case you were wondering. Which mean that Vettel was within 1 meter of Max before the crash. So you lied. I see that clearly, and I’ve seen it for a while. You are a liar, and you want to try to fool me with your lies. It’s not working, I have eyes and a brain. Go fool someone else.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5a6521597c93c2d23c55c469b2c9f746404a167f5c295433eec2e8af20b629dc.jpg
Yeah, but you never use those eyes and brain. So,what use are they?
I love it, when you condemn others for your own actions. Making up lies and being crazy. Isn’t that on your CV?
Wrong again. This image is clearly well-into the crash. As is obvious by the fact that Max and Kimi have both already pivoted by several degrees.
The fact that Max does not hit Seb is further proof that Seb was clear of him.
Wrong yet again. Max’s front tires are the only pair of tires in that entire photo that are angled in different directions to each other. This is far from normal alignment, and clearly indicates Max’s front left tire has already hit Kimi’s rear tire.
Yes, drivers should know where the other cars around them are. This is called “situational awareness”.
No one ran into Max. No one forced Max into Kimi. Max made the decision to steer into Kimi, interlocked wheels with him, then braked.
Max’s fault.
You can make up wherever lies you want they don’t fool me. You can see angles that don’t exist, you don’t fool me. You are a liar.
Just watch the video, and stop lying saying you watched it. You can go frame by frame and see the moment of impact. It’s irrelevant anyway, as everything else you said is a lie. Like Vettel the liar.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/41baf155ad4766ac5e43ffc2a67a7d08518944170277f4c6b2d98f69df462bf7.png
This is a close-up of Max’s front tires from *your* photo.
1) The fronts of Max’s front tires are further apart than the rear of Max’s front tires. This is a condition called “toe-out”, and it is *so* undesirable that all car builders include some amount of “toe-in”, just to counteract it.
2) Max’s front left tire is noticeably thinner than his front right, because…
3) Max has hit Kimi, and Kimi’s rear tire is pushing into Max’s front left, which is also…
4) Creating a large bulge on the top of Max’s front left tire.
See my comments above, where I prove my contention using close-ups of your own photo.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cc318015ae69b77b16a7e97fd873bae8089f07a7d8971bc6ae1e6244d5f83dc7.png
Note, also, that the outside shoulder of Kimi’s rear tire is noticeably more rounded from the contact.
That is just shadow and spray causing that. Watch the video you liar!
If this is the exact moment of contact, then go back in time 0.1s and you will be before the contact and Vettel will be 0.5m from Max! So you will be a liar still, as you said Vettel was always more than 1m from Max. You are wrong here, but even if you were right, you are still a liar. Let it go. I don’t talk to liars. Go away.
HAAAAA! You talk to yourself all the time. So, you are lying about liars!
EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amazing, You lost this argument on GPtoday and had to resort to deleting and blocking the several people that proved you WRONG. So, you came here to troll. It shows your true agenda. Trolling and that is all
False.
“Shadow and spray” do not cause a tire to become thinner, nor do they cause a visible bulge of rubber to appear on the top of a tire.
I didn’t say this was “the exact moment of contact”, I said it was just *after* the collision – which is as much time/contact specificity as can be deduced by the photo.
And, in any case, .5m of lateral movement in .1s is quite easy for an F1 car, so the rest of your argument fails as well.
Haaaaaaaaaaaaa. You are right, that was the moment of impact, and there was Vettel, pushing Max into Kimi. So Vettel’s fault. Thanks for proving it.
Yeah that amount of movement is easy, but that is not what happened. Have you watched the video? Have you seen what ACTUALLY happened? You keep on talking about what COULD have happened, but you ignore what DID happen. So go back to the video, grab the screen shot of the moment BEFORE this one, where you say contact happened, and show that to me. Then we can both see how close Vettel was to Max. That would be great. You do that and then I will see that you are focused on the facts, not on a story.
My argument doesn’t fail based on what you say COULD have happened. You should use the events that ACTUALLY happened in your argument. That is something you have never done. Just a tiny blurry image way before contact, and then you ignored the images of the actual contact.
Like I said, you lied when you said you watched the video, because if you did you would have seen what really happened. That isn’t an insult. That is a fact. When someone lies, it’s a fact. You didn’t watch the video. If you did you would say “Yes you are right, just before that moment Vettel was half a meter from Max. I was wrong.”
I didn’t say that was the moment of impact, *you* did. And, in fact, I have already refuted it previously:
“I said it was just *after* the collision – which is as much time/contact specificity as can be deduced by the photo.”
Your entire argument was conditional on this (*your*) statement: “If this is the exact moment of contact…”, which I have refuted, and you *still* have not proven. As such, the rest of your argument fails before you even make it.
Also, please take particular note of *your* use of the word “if”, upon which you based your entire argument. “You keep on talking about what COULD have happened…”
“but you ignore what DID happen” – Like the fact that Seb COULD have run into Max, but Max ACTUALLY DID run into Kimi.
You still haven’t looked at the video, have you? I didn’t think so. Now you go and find the moment just before the impact, and you tell me how far from Max is the front wing of Vettel. Go and do that. Show me the image, show me what you call “just before the impact.” You do that, then talk to me. Until then, you are just making up BS.
You didn’t get it. For the sake of this discussion I accepted YOUR definition of the moment of contact. I said that based on the image that YOU said was the moment of contact, Vettel was less than 0.5m from Max. So that is YOUR point.
Now here is what DID happen. Max was ahead of Kimi and Vettel was ahead of Max. Not 100% ahead as it’s the start of the race. Vettel moved to his left by about 1/2 the width of the track, towards Max, on a collision course with Max. Max moved left to avoid that accident, as he SHOULD as a normal driver would. Kimi came up the inside of Max as he moved left to avoid Vettel. Max saw that he was in a sandwich and braked, but it was too late. Kimi didn’t give him any room, and Vettel closed down all the room that was there.
Then a total liar called jjredfish made up a story that Max was closing down Kimi, and Vettel wasn’t closing down Max. Which is totally contrary to the facts. Then I showed him the facts, he flipped out and went on about how Vettel was never 1 meter from Max. Despite all the images and videos showing this to be a lie. Then to get out of that lie he made up a story that this was supposed to be before the crash that Vettel was never 1 meter from Max. Then I got him to define the point of the crash, and based on HIS definition, Vettel was 1 meter from Max. Then he talked about unicorns.
Are you having a stroke? We’ve been through this so many times my quotes are becoming nested:
“I didn’t say that was the moment of impact, *you* did. And, in fact, I have already refuted it previously:
“I said it was just *after* the collision – which is as much time/contact specificity as can be deduced by the photo.””
Max ran into a car that was driving straight down the track. And he was already well into that action before Seb even got within two meters of him:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5bce7b52f03c8f785c67a1d8b6824d5fa18f2322d1728be63a7911063d7cb2d6.png
Yes, as I’ve said before, I’ve seen the video. The image on my very first post was taken from it.
And I said of the first photo *you* posted: “This photo is just before Max chooses to run into Kimi. Seb is still a meter away from Max, and almost entirely in front of him.”
Based on this ridiculously blurry image, the wheels are not interlocked. So Kimi is not past Max. If this was the moment of impact then Kimi would have bounced left and not lost his rear tire. So thanks for posting an image before the crash. What I can also see, which I have seen on the video, is that Kimi is actually angled to his right slightly. He is turning into Max slightly. Thanks for making that clear.
Since Kimi has room to his left, for him to be turning right into the car beside him is crazy. Now how about you get the image just before the crash, and you will see that Vettel is pushing Max across to his left. As you show here, Max has not interlocked wheels with Kimi. He only did that when Vettel kept coming across.
Also this shows that Vettel has NOT cleared Max and Max HAS TO move left to avoid a collision. It’s great how you post images that prove my point, and think they prove yours. What is most funny is that the distance in THIS image between Max and Vettel is about two thinknesses of Vettel’s rear tire. So 80cm. So less than a meter. Thanks again.
So you are saying that in this photo, the first I posted, Seb is still a meter away from Max? Is that what you are saying? Haaaaaaa. Even a blind monkey can see that the distance between Vettel’s tire and Max’s wing is the thickness of Vettel’s rear tire. Which is 0.4 of a meter. Can you please tell me how 0.4 of a meter is more than 1 meter? Just answer the question as this is way too funny. Please, explain that to me. Or did you mean another photo that I didn’t post that is just in your head? If there was another photo, please post it here.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dc10927ee5999093b05b942f14edd43a2ce49757a2a81b8173cdb93cd47c6599.jpg
So in this blurry image, Seb is more than 2 meters from Max? Wow. Here are three images. One is the dimensions of the 2017 F1 cars, one is the blurry image you have presented with Vettel’s 2 meter wide car moved to the left, showing that his distance to Max was less than 2 meters. The third shows that Vettel’s car was within a wheel’s distance of Max just before the impact (or at the moment of impact as you argued). So these three images show that you are wrong. Show them to your daughter and have her explain them to you. I am done with your lies. Endless lies. It’s boring.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ba1dcda98103cffac2464e4b9885040f40b39f3e00424888541a22c0af6ad4b8.jpg
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/884e304c2f685f2711f6275dd0ef38fb6be00f6927c23cae05308e4df24671fe.jpg
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4a462d9acc1d0fec6f2a9d80a2652ca18bf813b4aae81b1d54365be7640a1f90.jpg
We are all tired of your endless lies. And, your troll posts are boring as they are always the same.
You used this photo on GPtoday and were proved wrong by several people. Your reaction was to run and hide behind the moderator by deleting the posts that proved you wrong and blocking their authors. What a petulant child. This photo is just your troll bait.
You are having the same luck here trying to push your fake news narrative as you did on gptoday. Shows that you are not very smart trying to champion a proven losing argument. HAAAAA!
See, when you are proven wrong. You result to insults and name calling. That is how we know you are wrong. And, sadly, it is how it ends up in every thread you are on.
You should offer an online class on writing BS. Then, you could quit your boring dead end job. That you have to spend hours trolling to get away from.
The distance is clearly wider than Sebs rear wheel. And my statement is much more accurate than your statement that Max only moved only ***one meter toward Seb***, when in fact he moved almost to the middle of the track.
And the entire point – and what this photo clearly shows – is that Seb is giving Max much more room than Max is giving Kimi.
HAAAAAA! What could of happened is the basis of most of your arguments and you present them ad “facts”. What a hypocrite.
The blurry photo was not taken from directly above, so your use of the car as a ruler is invalid.
And the bottom photo shows space on *both* sides of Seb’s rear wheel, and is irrelevant in any case because Seb’s rear wheel is at least alongside of Max’s front wing which is 100mm narrower (per side), if not completely past it.
And, again, the entire point – and what this photo clearly shows – is that Seb is giving Max much more room than Max is giving Kimi.
I didn’t say the wheels were interlocked in this photo. Nor did I say this was the moment of impact (and really, how many times are you going to try to push that same, sad, failed narrative?).
Kimi is not angled toward Max. Max and Seb are on approximately parallel paths angled toward Kimi, whom is driving straight down the track.
If Max is trying to “avoid a collision”, why would he move left to run into the car he is inches away from instead of moving right where he has 2 meters of free space? That makes no sense.
What does make sense is that Max was trying to squeeze Kimi, and Kimi wasn’t falling for it, and continued to drive straight down the track.
This photo proves that Max didn’t *have* to be that close to Kimi because of anything Seb did. Max was that close to Kimi because Max ***chose*** to be there. Seb simply took the space that Max left open – and even then, Seb gave Max *much* more room than Max gave Kimi.
AND he didn’t run into him, which is, you know, fairly important…
You are so unbelievably dishonest it is crazy. Vettel is moving FAST to his left on a collision course with Max, and you think that is because Max is crashing into Kimi. You talk about Kimi holding his ground, and you don’t talk about what would have happened if Max stood his ground. You have avoided every proof I have given you, changed the topic, avoided the lies you have made about 1m, 2m etc. Vettel pushed Max into Kimi. Your spacial awareness is a joke. You talk of 2 m of space when it isn’t there. And all this happened in the space of 2 seconds. But you want to have Max out there with a ruler measuring distances. You are totally dishonest and you can forget about talking to me. You are a massive liar. You have never shown anything of substance here. No valid images, lies about distances between cars. And unicorn insults. Go away, as I have asked you many times. You are a liar and a fool.
Vettel was on a trajectory which took his rear tire INTO Max’s front wing, as the video of the incident shows. The ONLY thing that stopped that happening was Max moving left. You are a liar about everything. You talk about Vettel not being 2 m from Max, and I show that this is not the case. And you try to say that the front of the car is narrower, that only means that Vettel was even closer to Max. I showed you proof that you are wrong and you can’t admit it. It’s ok, I know who you are. A liar.
I cut and pasted the rear wheel and it was EXACTLY the distance between the cars. So 0.4m. And you said it was 2 meters. Wow. You are dumb. If Max stopped going left to stop interlocking wheels with Kimi then Vettel would have hit him. It is clear from the images. That you can’t see it means you are either dumb or blind or a liar. You can’t be blind as you can describe the images. You are not dumb as you are able to form sentences. So you must be a liar. Either that or a high functioning delusional person.
“Vettel was on a trajectory which took his rear tire INTO Max’s front wing”. If that is true, then Max chose to run into Kimi and create a multi-car pile-up instead of damaging his front wing. Which is even *more* stupid.
The front wing of *every* F1 car is narrower than the tires. This is a fact. And it means that Seb was 100mm *further away* from Max than if he had been alongside Max’s tires. Not “even closer”.
“You talk about Kimi holding his ground, and you don’t talk about what would have happened if Max stood his ground.”
This, from the same person whom just said: “You keep on talking about what COULD have happened, but you ignore what DID happen.” Seems you want it both ways…
Seb COULD have run into Max, but Max DID run into Kimi.
Yes, and I have completely refuted your poor cut and paste job.
It is clear from the image below that Max was already within inches of Kimi, while Seb was much further away. This is indisputable:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5bce7b52f03c8f785c67a1d8b6824d5fa18f2322d1728be63a7911063d7cb2d6.png
Yes but they had not hit at this stage. And since Kimi had space on his left and didn’t use it, why did he hit Max? This is before the accident. So it means nothing. And you said Vettel was more than 2m from Max which he wasn’t. So more lies!
Max didn’t hit Kimi. It was Kimi that moved right slightly. And Max only moved left to avoid Vettel who would have hit him. So Kimi had space and should have moved over. And Vettel had space and should not have closed down Max. I don’t use this word often, but it’s valid here. You are a retarded person for not understanding that simple chain of events.
No. I measured the distance using the rear wheel. But you are arguing over 10cm. Psycho behavior. And Max moved over as when Vettel started to move across Kimi was mostly behind him in his blind spot. And when he saw Kimi he expected Kimi would move over, AS HE SHOULD but did not. Then Max hit the brakes bit too late. Only a retarded person saw anything else. This is just noise to hide the fact that you are a liar.
I just worked out who you are. You are one of those guys who causes crashes on the highway and claims a sore neck, and says to the judge “Oh the angle of the sun and the car was 2 meters from me, and clearly they could have crashed with another car to avoid me and it’s their fault where is my money?” Yeah, I got you now. Sod off you money scamming loser. You know nothing of F1 and blind spots and driving to finish not arguing the rule book while crashed on the side of the track. You and vettel are great brothers. Crybaby losers.
So you are saying that Max should have in 1 second looked left, seen Kimi, looked right, calculated Vettel’s trajectory, said to himself “The probabilities suggest that I am better off crashing into Vettel, only costing me a front wing, than move left and know that Kimi won’t move left, and know that we will interlock wheels not bang wheels and therefore based on those probabilities it’s better to hold my line and crash out the guy who is going for the world championship and not the other guy, who is not speeding towards me.” Yeah I got it now. How dumb of Max to not work all that out in the 1 second he had to react. You are right!
Wrong. You have already admitted that:
1) Max interlocked wheels with Kimi, and
2) Max braked after interlocking, causing the contact
3) Kimi moved left from his grid position, making him the only driver who moved away from both of the other cars
ANY distance *further away* is the opposite of “even closer”, which is what *you*said.
No driver to has to move over from driving straight down the track because another driver is trying to squeeze/bully him into it.
“Only a retarded person think anything else.”
Actually in the RULES of F1 the driver in front on the straight can use as much of the straight as he wants, as long as he leaves 1 car’s width to the edge of the track for a car that has their wing equal to or in front of their rear wheel. So any car that is going straight HAS TO move for a car that is in front of them on the straight moving across the track. The fact that you don’t know the rules makes me laugh even harder than I already have been. This has been the funniest conversation I’ve ever had with anyone about F1.
Haaaaa, cherry picking. Avoiding the events at the moment of contact. Loser.
I have driven for almost 40 years with nary an accident. One of the patents I have been awarded is for a racing suspension system which many of the F1 teams considered. I have three degrees, including a doctorate. I have owned and driven formula cars, race karts, and flown my own airplanes. I have been to a great many Grands Prix, saw Senna race in his rookie season, and watched Nigel collapse trying to push his car over the finish line in Dallas. That’s “who I am”.
Who are you, besides someone who clearly has an enormous Vettel chip on his shoulder, and who uses ad hominem attacks to compensate for his lack of logic and dearth of valid arguments?
It was not Kimi’s obligation to cede ground to Max.
It *was* Max’s obligation not to run into Kimi.
Those are your own statements refuting you. Nothing “cherry-picking about it.
Vettel was moving right to left at roughly the same rate for most of the entire straight.
Kimi was driving straight down the track for most of the entire straight.
If Max can’t work out where to place his car without running into another driver in that amount of time, he needs to find a new occupation.
Anyone who has ever driven a formula car will tell you that touching interlocking wheels is pretty much the *worst* way to have contact with another car. And touching a front wing is one of the best.
ANY driver can use as much of the straight as they want, but NO driver can run into another car that is driving straight down the track in order to do so.
“The fact that you don’t know the rules makes me laugh even harder than I already have been.”
Actually you don’t know the rules, to say this. There are racing lines and drivers can move around and the car behind can’t say “I was going straight, you are at fault.” For you to say this shows that you really have NFI.
Haaaaaaaa. Vettel moved left within less than 2 seconds he was at Max. Haaaaaa. And Max didn’t KNOW that Vettel would hit his front wing. And Max didn’t know that Kimi would interlock wheels. You are acting like Max was sitting at home in his fat chair with his remote control freeze framing the race, and getting out his ruler to see the space between him and the other cars.
You know NOTHING of the blind spot in F1, the lack of vision in the side mirrors, due to their size and how they shake. You are looking at this like a fool, as if Max had perfect knowledge. He saw Vettel moving left fast and HAD to give way by the rules. He didn’t see Kimi who was in his blind spot until Kimi was beside him. Then he had about 0.5 second to calculate what was happening, looking left and right and straight in that 05s, and THEN realize that he had to brake, as that was the only way out. But it was already too late.
Vettel was the one making the wild move, and Kimi was the one coming from behind, so he knew where Max was at all times. The fact that you constantly blame Max for not having a super awareness of the whole situation in 0.5s shows that you know NOTHING about F1. This is why you are SO FUNNY! The only person who HAD TO BE CAREFUL was Vettel, who was racing for the WDC. Max and Kimi had nothing to lose. While Vettel had the right of way, racing is not about who has right of way, it is about who finishes. Vettel was retarded for his move. Kimi was retarded for not giving Max room, as a crash like that could only harm Vettel, who was racing for the WDC. Two Ferrari retards who sandwiched Max and caused a crash. Because ONLY Max had no space to move into. If he stayed straight he would have hit Vettel. He went left and hit Kimi. Only a retard would blame Max for that.
Cherry picking is where you pick SOME of what I said and ignore the rest. That is what you did. You don’t even know what cherry picking means. Haaaaaa.
Actually not according to the rules. Kimi was the one with space, and he chose not to use it. There is no rule that says “I was going straight, I had right of way.” You are an idiot.
Haaaaa. That is when I know that someone is a liar. When they revert to the CV and not the argument. You said that Vettel didn’t get within 2m of Max before the crash and didn’t get within 1 meter of Max at any point. I showed you that he did. Your CV has NOTHING to do with what happened on the track. Who am I? In my field I am the #1 expert in the world. My brother has worked in F1 for almost 30 years and has been in the most senior position in aerodynamics. Who cares. Your comments have been proven wrong by my use of images FROM THE RACE and not from your imagination. You could be Jesus, you would still be wrong. Simple logic. The CV doesn’t change the fact that you are wrong.
“Haaaaa.” ***You*** are the one who brought up “who I am”, so ***I*** am the one who corrected you.
***You*** are the one said I “know nothing of F1” , so ***I*** am the one who corrected you. Again.
Your brother may know about F1, but you are clearly lacking.
Wrong. Any driver who runs into another driver who is going straight down the track is at fault. You can’t just run into people. This is indisputable.
You just trapped yourself with your own failed “logic”.
If Max “HAD to give way by the rules” to Seb because Seb was in front, then Max ***also*** “HAD to give way by the rules” to Kimi who was already in front at the time of this photo, *before* Max interlocked his wheels with Kimi:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5bce7b52f03c8f785c67a1d8b6824d5fa18f2322d1728be63a7911063d7cb2d6.png
I know what “cherry-picking” means. I also know it doesn’t apply here.
Your own previous statements directly contradicted your current statements. That is not “cherry-picking” on my part, it is hypocrisy on yours.
Kimi was in front of Max before the time of impact so, according to you, it was Max’s obligation to cede ground to Kimi.
OK, We have been waiting years for one shred of evidence of your claims about you and your brother and get nothing but silence from you. PUT UP or SHUT UP. Further, silence is proof that you are a fraud and liar. Your fake news images is nothing more than fake news.
But, you DO! You pick a split second in time and claim that it predicts the future. What a fraud and hypocrite you are. You are just trolling the guy like you have countless others. That is why your claims have no substance or basis in reality.
Hilarious, that after being proven wrong on this on another forum. You use it to troll here.
By your own words, you are wrong when you have to use insults and name calling. HYPOCRITE!!!!! HAAAAAAA!
NO, anytime you make false claims about yourself and your brother is the funniest thing ever written here. STILL, waiting on evidence to back those up. And, still expecting silence because that is all you have.
Everybody is right, when they counter your fake news stories. HAAAAAA!
OHHHHH! Like the time your steel trap analytical mind discovered that I live in Indianapolis because I went to the F1 races there. Even, though I live 12 miles from a beach and have transportation to get to Indianapolis. HAAAAAA! Always, proving yourself the fool. That is why you are so funny.
Several people have proved you wrong and still you deny the truth. Talk about being a retarded person. You are the poster boy for it. Or, are you now saying you were on the track with a tape measure during the incident and measured it? NO wilder, than any of your other claims. That is why you go for the absurd. HAAAAA! You are such a troll and nothing more.
Compared to your slow functioning delusional claims? HAAAAA! But, you are the expert on lies. Tell us again how you only spend 7.5 minutes trolling on the internet at work. when you have time to cut and paste and measure stuff. Proving you a liar once again.
You are not really buying his brother story are you? For years others have asked for evidence and nothing but silence emanates from the liar.You are just his latest troll toy to feed his deranged mind.
That’s a lie. You talk to yourself all the time and you are a proven liar. Don’t you see the irony in that?
Nothing to see here. But Leonardo’s usual troll techniques. Look at his profile and you will see he is following his usual antics of denial and lies. That is why his posts have become so redundant and boring.
crybaby loser? You mean like Hambone crying that Mercedes was sabotaging his car last year when he was the first place loser for the WDC?
Not even a little. But it’s already hard enough to keep him on topic, so I didn’t give him that tangent.
Oh he will keep on trolling. His game is, if you can’t dazzle them with knowledge. Baffle them with BS. Look at his profile and you will see almost word for word that is all he can do. I spent 45 years as a firefighter/paramedic fighting against misery. My new life is exposing the fraud and lies of his troll behavior. I try desperately to stop him getting new victims like you.
He hasn’t won an argument yet, so the only one he is victimizing is himself.
Yes, that is correct. If Max was able to move left, then he should have. But as Max was not able to do that, he could not. When Max was in front of Kimi, he left Kimi the required room, which is 1 car’s width to the edge of the track. But Kimi actually had about 2 car’s width. And he used them to come past Max. Then Max left Kimi the maximum space that he could, which took him to within 1 wheel’s distance from Vettel. So Max did everything possible. That you don’t understand this just proves my point even more.
Yes it does apply. You made three points, ignored about 6 others, and claimed that those 3 points proved your argument. Classic cherry picking.
Yes and Max was trying to do that. But as you keep on giving us an image before the point of impact, you are lying. At the point of impact Max was trying to go left to give Vettel space, and trying to go right to give Kimi space, but they squeezed him. So he braked to give them both space, and since Kimi was interlocked with Max, the crash happened. Max did everything right. The other two cars left him without choice. And since Vettel was racing for the WDC he did the dumbest thing a driver could do. And exactly what I predicted. You can move across on another car, but you have to give them the space to still be on the race track. Kimi and Vettel didn’t give Max that space. So it’s not Max’s fault. Learn the rules.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3bbc8c2118a7528058923e7687b8d74fc0554d83b39e68224dbae5901bbaa4c0.jpg
I never said “In your professional CV you know nothing about F1.” I was talking about your arguments put forward. You don’t know the rules of F1. That is clear. You don’t know that drivers have blind spots and can’t see what you and I can see on the TV. So you don’t know about F1. That is clear. I NEVER mentioned your CV. You did.
As I said, you don’t know the rules of F1. You are a moron. Look at the start of the Italian GP. Search for this video “2017 Italian Grand Prix Race Highlights”. Lewis drives to his right and pushed Stroll wide. Stroll doesn’t hold his line, going straight, and crashes into Lewis. He moves over. This is NORMAL in F1. It’s like you never saw a single GP. Any car may use the entire width of the straight as long as they leave 1 car width for any driver that has at least its front wing beside their rear tire. But there is NOTHING against weaving. You should LEARN THE RULES before you come here and shoot your mouth off.
This is the rule as it was stated last year:
27.7 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason. For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a ‘significant portion’
They changed the rules this year as people were complaining that the driving was being penalized too much. So here is the new simplified rule for 2017:
27.4 At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person.
So do you think pushing Max into Kimi was not dangerous? Do you think Kimi not giving Max room, when he had room and Max didn’t have room, was not dangerous. I can tell you that it was dangerous as we saw the crash. It took 4 cars out of the race by the end of the crash. That was because Vettel closed down Max, and Kimi drove straight. And even a monkey could see that.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ebeec614ccfe5c54e51a2e10b3b00f93d964488dc0873085db088f1c5d8f98bf.png
I guess all the F1 drivers, the stewards, the FIA, the news reporters, and Ferrari themselves forgot to understand F1 also as Vettel was universally ridiculed for his actions and Max was not punished or blamed in any way. Except by you. Even the obviously biased Italian press blamed Vettel. And all Ferrari did was make one tweet and nothing else. So where is the universal condemnation of Max for his clear mistake by all of those who clearly understand F1? Just point me to that please.
If you directly contradict yourself regarding the subject at hand, it doesn’t matter if you’ve said a thousand “other” things. You have *still* contradicted yourself.
I never mentioned my CV, *YOU* did. And, fyi, that’s not even *close* to being ***A*** CV, much less *my* CV – and if you knew what a CV actually entails, you would know that.
You said that you know “who I am” (followed by some personal attacks). ***You*** are the one who brought up “who I am”, so ***I*** am the one who corrected you and told you some actual *truth* about “who I am”. It is hilarious that you would mistakenly call that a “CV”, then attack ***ME*** for your mistake.
***You*** are the one said I “know nothing of F1” , so ***I*** am the one who corrected you. Again. And told you the “truth” about my driving experience with road cars and formula cars with tiny mirrors.
It was Max’s obligation to cede ground to Kimi – as you just admitted – and Max had plenty of space to move right, and brake (another method of “ceding ground”), *before* interlocking wheels with Kimi:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5bce7b52f03c8f785c67a1d8b6824d5fa18f2322d1728be63a7911063d7cb2d6.png
It was Max’s obligation to cede ground to Kimi – as you just admitted – and Max had plenty of space to move right and brake (another method of “ceding ground”), *before* interlocking wheels with Kimi:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5bce7b52f03c8f785c67a1d8b6824d5fa18f2322d1728be63a7911063d7cb2d6.png
It was Max’s obligation to cede ground to Kimi – as you just admitted – and Max had plenty of space to move right, and brake (another method of “ceding ground”), *before* interlocking wheels with Kimi:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5bce7b52f03c8f785c67a1d8b6824d5fa18f2322d1728be63a7911063d7cb2d6.png
I guess all the kings, queens, and clergy forgot to understand the cosmos also as Copernicus was universally ridiculed for his theory that the earth was not at the center of the universe…
Yes but Copernicus had facts to support his theory. You said that Vettel wasn’t within 2m of Max before the crash and I showed that he was. You said Vettel was never within 1m of Max and I showed that he was. So in this situation I’m Galileo and you are Pope Urban III. Look it up.
Max didn’t have space to his right as Vettel was coming across. You keep showing this blurry image that is before the wheels are interlocked and you ignore all the clear images that show Vettel much closer than this 0.1s later. It’s called lying when you ignore the facts that prove you wrong. It’s why you are worthless. Watch the Video. Max had about 0.5s to look left, look right and decide what to do. You keep pimping out this one image but if you have seen the video you would KNOW that if Max moved right he would have crashed into Vettel. You are ignoring this fact, and that is called lying.
Vettel was moving left at a rapid rate. About 0.5s later Vettel was already I front of Max. That was his speed coming across. You think this one still image proves something when the video shows otherwise. Who are you writing these lies for? I’ve seen the video. I saw Vettel’s trajectory. I know the truth. This is a blatant lie. Shut up you lair. Watch the video then go away.
How many times will you post this lie? It’s insane behavior.
You clearly know nothing about F1 and your 40 year no claim bonus means nothing. Your 3 doctorates mean nothing. Your rejected engineering idea means nothing. You’ve never answered my comments with anything other than one blurry image and lies. So it’s logical that I would think you know nothing. So to be clear you are a safe driver, an engineer and you have a total lack of understanding of F1. Got it.
You can’t even explain the contradiction that you claim exists. You just say it exists. The clear behavior of a liar.
It was Max’s obligation to cede ground to Kimi – as you just admitted – and Max had plenty of space to move right, and brake (another method of “ceding ground”), *before* interlocking wheels with Kimi:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5bce7b52f03c8f785c67a1d8b6824d5fa18f2322d1728be63a7911063d7cb2d6.png
Not only did I explain it, I *numbered it*.
And your only defense has been to squeal “cherry-picking”.
We all expected that your comprehension would be non-existent, and you have certainly not disappointed. But you have also proven you can’t even read what was actually written.
I’ll let you (try to) figure it out…
Max could have braked enough to slide behind Seb ***at any time*** before he idiotically chose to interlock his wheels with Kimi.
Max could have braked enough to slide behind Seb ***at any time*** before he idiotically chose to interlock his wheels with Kimi.
How many times will you run from the truth? “It’s insane behavior.”
It was Max’s obligation to cede ground to Kimi – as you just admitted – and Max had plenty of space to move right, and Max could have braked enough to slide behind Seb ***at any time*** before he idiotically chose to interlock his wheels with Kimi.
Only a TROLL accuses others of his own behavior. and, on the rare occasion that you are right it is the sign of a liar. I love it, when you always prove yourself a fool and an idiot for proving it.
I bet he can back up his claims with evidence. Unlike, you who only provides silence to back up his big mouth and delusional claims. We all got it about you a long time ago.
HAAAAAAAA! HAAAAAAA! You posted this exact same argument and “evidence” on gptoday and lost big time. You are right it is insane behavior. HAAAAAA! You are killing me laughing so hard. Why, do you always have to prove yourself the fool?
TROLL, TROLL, TROLL, LIE, LIE , LIE, DENY, DENY, DENY. Oh look, I just wrote a Leonardo Bigollo/ numero fibbonacci/ PIV/ Rocket Scientest post. And, I feel all slimy and sick about it.
Ignoring the facts and making up lies is the only thing you ever post. HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!
HAAAA! How can you look up at the stars with your head up your ass constantly.
Why, so you can run from the truth screaming your lungs out like you always do.
What good are rules, if you have never read them like you
BUT!!!!! He can prove his CV. They are not the wild claims of a proven liar. AND, we are still waiting for you to provide proof after nothing but silence from you for years now. HAAAA!
Your interpretation of this photo has been debunked by several people. But, you keep repeating yourself. The sure sign of a lie and insane behavior.
No Max didn’t have plenty of room to his right. You are CRAZY!!!
In the moment before your blurry image, Kimi was behind Max, in the moment that he was beside Max, Vettel closed from being 2m away to being 0.5m away, in the space of maybe 0.5s. That is not enough time to make the decision that Kimi isn’t giving room, and Vettel is still coming. In that moment Max decided to brake. You are on another planet if you think that Max had the time to get out of this. ONLY Vettel and Kimi had space to move into, or had the ability to not close down Max. You are OUT OF YOUR MIND if you think anything else. What planet are you on? Pluto (hint, it’s not a planet any more).
“At any time” ??? This whole thing was over in the space of 2 seconds. From when Vettel started to move across, to when Kimi didn’t move to his left to give Max room. There was ONLY enough time to work out what Vettel was doing and what Kimi was doing, then the whole thing was over. You are INSANE if you think anything else. You act like Max had perfect vision all around him all of the time and it happened over the course of minutes. You are totally INSANE to think anything else.
You have an whole orchard that you cherry pick from and use it a lot to try and bolster your lies. You hypocrite.
If, not understanding is proof that you are wrong. Then, why would you ever post anything. That is insane behavior.
Why do you keep on repeating the same points? Max didn’t have the time, or the vision of the situation, or the certaintly about what Vettel and Kimi were doing to react. If Max could have slid behind Vettel at any time, then Kimi could have moved left at any time, and Vettel could have stopped moving left at any time. But only ONE driver and only ONE team needed to not have a crash on the opening straight of the race. Vettel and Ferrari.
So if anyone was going to THINK about what they were doing, and use this “Any Time Before” BS that you are talking about, then it was Vettel and Kimi. Who is the idiot? Max for trying to avoid two cars that sandwiched him, or Vettel and Kimi who combined threw away the WDC?
I laugh at Vettel looking at his Gina after the crash at Singapore GP. A classic image of stupidity. It’s called RACE CRAFT. The ability to win a race, not to cry about what someone else did. Vettel has none.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/19f8c8807ae82d2d74d00486eefa08b5fe16dbf95c89349f8682d57d38acbe80.png
I don’t need to read what is actually written by you. I don’t have the time or the desire. The point has been made. When I am in a meeting with business people, and they throw out their CV (or some derivation of “Do you know who I am) then I know that they can’t argue the point. I use words like CV because I can’t be bothered explaining exactly what I mean as there isn’t any point. I have show you exactly the distance between the cars at several moments in the crash and you just revert to your CV (or equivalent). It’s the point in the meeting where all the OTHER people in the room understand that there is one looney at the end of the table.
I got to that point with you a while ago, but it has been funny watching you circling around the facts, unable to explain why Vettel has left Max with 0.5m of space, and if Max had not moved over to interlock wheels with Kimi, he would have hit Vettel. I have laughed at your refusal to explain how Max is supposed to see Kimi in his blind spot, Vettel coming over fast from the right, make all sorts of calculations and predictions, in the space of 0.5s and avoid a collision which he didn’t create, which costs him nothing, and costs Vettel the WDC.
Never an answer to that. If you mean your blurry image before the moment that Vettel comes across another meter? Haaaaaa. That is like looking at one frame of a 10 second video and claiming that this is the only thing that happened. Insane. So watching you avoid the facts is funny. But like most things in life, the law of diminishing returns is beginning to take its toll, and this conversation, while still funny, isn’t worth the time any more.
You gave 3 numbered points and avoided 6 other points that you could have numbered. It’s called numbered cherry picking. Like your ONE still image of a moment before the crash that proves NOTHING. Because it doesn’t factor in that Vettel is moving left at a rapid rate. If I could be bothered I’d make a GIF of the moments before the crash from when Vettel starts moving left until just after the crash. But I know you would make up another story about that, or just ignore it. You are a liar, a fool and an idiot. It’s been funny to laugh at you. I also laughed at Kimi who was too dumb to move left, and Vettel who was so dumb he started a move that cost him the WDC, for NOTHING. What a joke of a human being. You, Vettel and Kimi. I laugh at you all. I can’t wait for Lewis to be a 4 x WDC and all the Vettel fans will have to say “Oh Lewis’ WDC’s dont’ count, only Vettel’s count, because of… BLAH BLAH BLAH LIE LIE LIE.” That will be a hilarious time.
“If you directly contradict yourself regarding the subject at hand, it doesn’t matter if you’ve said a thousand “other” things. You have *still* contradicted yourself.”
Yes, if Vettel wasn’t moving to his left quickly. Which he was. So yes, if we ignore what was happening at the time, and just focus on one image, and assume that Vettel was NEVER going to his left after this moment, then yes you are 100% right. So if we ignore the truth and just focus on the unicorns then you are right.
This image below shows how far Vettel came across in the ONE SECOND after your image. He has moved to his left by two widths of his car. So 4 meters. That means that if Max moved into this “space” that you talk about, he would have crashed into Vettel. So Max COULD NOT move to his right. You know that you are just lying about that fact, over and over again. But you are lying, and you know it.
So while you keep showing this one blurry image, you are a liar if you say this is the whole story. But since you can’t admit when you are wrong, you keep on showing this one image. Show me the image 0.1s after your blurry image. Can you do that? No, you can’t.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e2273cd22f91e94850f24332b5b3fe5fff798d6e6b029d78bd12a8d90a0b23b8.jpg
But I haven’t contradicted myself. You said I did and you provided no evidence for that fact. I could repeat over and over again that you contradicted yourself, it proves nothing. Do you see that your comments are lacking evidence and are only insults. You think I contradicted myself but you have given no proof. I have given a HUGE amount of proof. So go away little child with your empty efforts to attack the man, not the argument. Three points, ignoring the other 6 does not make an argument. Go away little cherry picking child.
Yes, Max did have plenty of room, as shown in the photo. But it is even simpler than that – he wouldn’t have even needed to move at all.
At the time of this photo, Max clearly had time to move left AND hit his brakes – because that is exactly what he did. So he also had plenty of time to *just* hit his brakes and *not* move left. And the harder he hit his brakes, the more time and space he would have created. Once he dropped back a few feet – which an F1 car can do in a 100th of a second – he would have been completely clear of Seb.
Yes, Max did have plenty of time, as shown in the photo. But it is even simpler than that – he wouldn’t have even needed to move at all.
At the time of this photo, Max clearly had time to move left AND hit his brakes – because that is exactly what he did. So he also had plenty of time to *just* hit his brakes and *not* move left. And the harder he hit his brakes, the more time and space he would have created. Once he dropped back a few feet – which an F1 car can do in a 100th of a second – he would have been completely clear of Seb.
Turns out, the truth is still the truth, regardless of the number of times it is written. Try reading books, they’re based on the same principle.
Yes, Max did have plenty of room, as shown in the photo. But it is even simpler than that – he wouldn’t have even needed to move at all.
At the time of this photo, Max clearly had time to move left AND hit his brakes – because that is exactly what he did. So he also had plenty of time to *just* hit his brakes and *not* move left. And the harder he hit his brakes, the more time and space he would have created. Once he dropped back a few feet – which an F1 car can do in a 100th of a second – he would have been completely clear of Seb.
“I don’t need to read what is actually written by you.” So you admit you comment on that which you have not read.
That explains everything you’ve written.
During the last few years there has been only 3 facts that you have not denied. Those are, when I have exposed the truth that you are a troll, a liar, and a fraud. That you have not denied those is very telling. The ONLY fact that you have posted is that when you have to resort to insults then you are already proven WRONG. Look, how bad you just convicted yourself. HAAAAAA!
OH MY GAWD! The king of picking a split second in time to predict the future is accusing another for doing the same. You are really that stupid to not realize that all you say applies to yourself. That is beyond delusional
You never read the facts. They do not apply in your delusional world
Talking to yourself again. The funny part is that even you think you are crazy for doing the same.
Your mind is to small to be from another planet. Since you condemn others for doing the exact same thing as you. You are de facto calling yourself CRAZY. On that, we all agree.
…
You don’t understand what a contradiction is? Do you have to have everything spelled out? I even numbered it for you, for Pete’s sake…
You said Kimi ran into Max, after saying that Max interlocked wheels and then braked – which is Max running into Kimi.
*That* is a very obvious contradiction.
No, I said that I don’t need to read it. You are repeating the same thing over and over again, never saying anything new. Just referring to the same blurry image and nothing else. So NOW I don’t need to read your comments as after several days you are just saying the same BS. I have read all that you said, I don’t need to KEEP reading it. Get it? Or are you so dumb that you don’t understand the past, present, future?
Same photo, same lie. Max might have had the time in this moment to brake, but he didn’t have the time to LOOK LEFT, LOOK RIGHT AND MAKE A DECISION. You are a liar. A total liar. Endless liar. You say that you know about motor racing and you lie that someone has the time in this situation to work out what is going on with a car on his left in his blind spot, and a car on his right that is marginally ahead that is suddenly moving towards him. If you think this is the case then Kimi could have moved left in that same microsecond. And Vettel could have stopped moving left in that microsecond. So ANYONE could have avoided the crash. But only ONE driver NEEDED to avoid the crash. Vettel. And only ONE team NEEDED to avoid the crash. Ferrarl. So the only dumb a$$es are Kimi and Vettel. QED.
At the time of this photo, Max clearly had time to move left AND hit his brakes – because that is exactly what he did. So he also had plenty of time to *just* hit his brakes and *not* move left. And the harder he hit his brakes, the more time and space he would have created. Once he dropped back a few feet – which an F1 car can do ***in 100th of a second*** he would have been completely clear of Seb.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5bce7b52f03c8f785c67a1d8b6824d5fa18f2322d1728be63a7911063d7cb2d6.png
Yes and Vettel could have not moved left, and Kimi could have made space. So you have proved NOTHING. Dumb a$$. The best bit though is that this action by Kimi and Vettel cost Vettel and Ferrari the WDC. So who is the dumb a$$? Answer that question.
Yes and Vettel could have not moved left, and Kimi could have made space. So you have proved NOTHING. Dumb a$$. The best bit though is that this action by Kimi and Vettel cost Vettel and Ferrari the WDC. So who is the dumb a$$? Answer that question. Go on. Actually tell me if Max could avoid the accident, then so could Vettel and Kimi. And since they had more to lose, who is the dumb a$$?
Seb and Kimi could have done those things, but they didn’t *have* to do those things.
But (per the official F1 rules, according to you), Max ***HAD*** to give way to the other cars.
So Max had plenty of time and attention to decide to turn left just enough to interlock wheels with Kimi – but without quite running into the side of him – and then hit the brakes.
But he didn’t have time to just hit the brakes.
Nice “logic”…
Kimi put himself into that situation. Was it Kimi at fault for not moving left? Yes. So Kimi can hit Max, by putting his car in a certain place that causes Max and him to crash into each other. Kimi had space to his left. Vettel was coming across from the right, so Max had no room to his right. So Max had no where to go. So Max had to try to brake to get out of it.
For Max to achieve what you are talking about, being the blame for the crash, he had to look at Kimi and Vettel in the same MICROSECOND, which is impossible. So he looks at Vettel, and sees Kimi in his peripheral vision and brakes to get out of the sandwich. But he brakes too late as KIMI has allowed them to interlock wheels. Kimi has ONLY Max to watch, so KIMI has to stop the wheels interlocking, not Max. And Vettel ONLY has Max to watch, so VETTEL has to make sure that he doesn’t push Max into Kim. It’s child’s play. Can you work it out yet?
Now I EXPLAINED all of this in the past. But you ignored this and cherry picked then claimed a contradiction that does not exist. This is so boring it’s like talking to a child. Go back and see where I explained all of this. Which is why I said to you that I have not contradicted myself and you are wrong. And cherry picking. Got it yet?
No, you said: “I don’t need to read what is actually written by you.”.
That is a direct quote, written by you. You can read it for yourself, in your own comment.
Yes and Vettel could have not moved left, and Kimi could have made space. So you have proved NOTHING. Dumb a$$. The best bit though is that this action by Kimi and Vettel cost Vettel and Ferrari the WDC. So who is the dumb a$$? Answer that question.
Yes and Vettel could have not moved left, and Kimi could have made space. So you have proved NOTHING. Dumb a$$. The best bit though is that this action by Kimi and Vettel cost Vettel and Ferrari the WDC. So who is the dumb a$$? Answer that question.
Yes and Vettel could have not moved left, and Kimi could have made space. So you have proved NOTHING. Dumb a$$. The best bit though is that this action by Kimi and Vettel cost Vettel and Ferrari the WDC. So who is the dumb a$$? Answer that question.
See when I keep repeating the same statement it doesn’t advance the discussion. So how about YOU answer the question. Here it is again: “So who is the dumb a$$?”
Seb and Kimi could have done those things, but they didn’t *have* to do those things.
But (per the official F1 rules, according to you), Max ***HAD*** to give way to the other cars.
So Max had plenty of time and attention to decide to turn left just enough to interlock wheels with Kimi – but without quite running into the side of him – and then hit the brakes.
But he didn’t have time to just hit the brakes. Nice “logic”…
Seb and Kimi could have done those things, but they didn’t *have* to do those things.
But (per the official F1 rules, according to you), Max ***HAD*** to give way to the other cars.
Nope.
Per the official F1 rules, according to you, Max ***HAD*** to give way to the other cars. Seb and Kimi didn’t have to give way to Max.
Max had plenty of time and attention to decide to turn left just enough to interlock wheels with Kimi – but without quite running into the side of him – and then hit the brakes.
But he didn’t have time to just hit the brakes.
Nice “logic”…
No I showed you the rules. Which is why Max didn’t get any penalty, you liar.
No I showed you the rules. Max was driving with the rules. Which is why Max didn’t get any penalty, you liar.
No I showed you the rules. Max was driving with the rules. Which is why Max didn’t get any penalty, you liar. Got it yet?
“I don’t NEED to read” is NOT “I don’t read.” Wow you are dumb.
He didn’t have time and attention to turn left just enough to interlock wheels. He was responding to Vettel and HOPING Kimi had enough brains to move left to avoid the crash. As I said, Kimi was in his blind spot. By the time he saw Kimi it was too late. That is something I have said over and over and over again. But you are too dumb to get it.
Again, I showed you the rules. Max was driving with the rules. Which is why Max didn’t get any penalty, you liar.
Yes, I used your rules as the basis of the argument: Max had to give way to the other two cars. That is part of the premise, not the point.
If Max had plenty of time and attention to decide to turn left just enough to interlock wheels with Kimi – but without quite running into the side of him – and then hit the brakes, then he clearly had time to just hit the brakes.
If Max had plenty of time and attention to decide to turn left AND hit the brakes, then he clearly had time to *just* hit the brakes.
And turning left and “HOPING” you don’t hit someone is categorically stupid when he could have *just* braked.
Per F1 rules, according to you, Max had to give way to Kimi. Kimi did *not* have to give way to Max.
Yes, I used your rules as the basis of the argument: Max had to give way to the other two cars.
Seb and Kimi didn’t have to give way to Max.
Yes, I know, I quoted you correctly. YOU misquoted yourself.
Tell us again, how you only spend 7.5 minutes a day goofing off and trolling instead of working at your dead end job. YOU LIAR!!! HAAAAAA!
Only an idiot would keep trying to prove a losing argument. Your just to stupid to get it.
HAAAAA! You calling him dumb is hilarious. This from the guy that constantly condemns others for doing the exact same thing he does.
And, you are to dumb to realize you have lost this argument over and over.
No, I said what I meant, you misunderstood. It’s basic English.
No you didn’t. You ignored the rules. You are a liar.
Here it is again, you idiot.
Max didn’t have time and attention to turn left just enough to interlock wheels. He was responding to Vettel and HOPING Kimi had enough brains to move left to avoid the crash. As I said, Kimi was in his blind spot. By the time he saw Kimi it was too late. That is something I have said over and over and over again. But you are too dumb to get it.
One more time you complete fool.
Max didn’t have time and attention to turn left just enough to interlock wheels. He was responding to Vettel and HOPING Kimi had enough brains to move left to avoid the crash. As I said, Kimi was in his blind spot. By the time he saw Kimi it was too late. That is something I have said over and over and over again. But you are too dumb to get it.
Here it is again, you not reading, idiot.
I said nothing about interlocking wheels in that comment, because the point is exactly the same without it.
If Max had plenty of time and attention to decide to turn left AND hit the brakes, then he clearly had time to *just* hit the brakes.
And turning left and “HOPING” you don’t hit someone is categorically stupid when he could have *just* braked.
Per F1 rules, according to you, Max had to give way to Kimi. Kimi did *not* have to give way to Max.
Hey look what I found. The TRUTH. Tell me where Vettel is never 2 meters from Max. Or Vettel is never 1 meter from Max, whichever story you are selling this time…
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fa137aeb65acfcc58da79aac1b95d06e29953d3dc51a995eb7fc71e72ea9cdcb.gif
Even without “interlocking wheels”, the point is exactly the same.
If Max had plenty of time and attention to decide to turn left AND hit the brakes, then he clearly had time to *just* hit the brakes.
And turning left and “HOPING” you don’t hit someone is categorically stupid when he could have *just* braked.
Per F1 rules, according to you, Max had to give way to Kimi. Kimi did *not* have to give way to Max.
To the contrary, I cited them (and credited you):
“(per the official F1 rules, according to you), Max ***HAD*** to give way to the other cars.”
You don’t know anything about racing you twat. You don’t brake when you are racing to the first corner of a race. You jostle for position and EVERYONE makes room for everyone else. Unless you are Kimi or Vettel. Wow you have never watched an F1 race have you??? I mean really, you’ve never seen a race have you? Not one, right? You think that people brake on the straight WAY before the corner? THAT is the most dangerous thing you can do. In 99% of the cases the other cars will give room to the cars around them at the start. Because if they don’t they crash. Kimi didn’t give room. Vettel didn’t give room. They are SO DUMB it’s crazy. To drive like that when there is a WDC at stake? WTF? And for you to not understand that WFT x 1,000. So dumb.
I didn’t say you failed to say what you originally meant, I said you misquoted yourself.
I have to comment again on this. You are SO DUMB to think that a driver would brake on the straight unless it was absolutely critical. FU(# you are the dumbest person I have ever spoken to. I don’t know if you have ever seen a single F1 race. To brake when EVERYONE is accelerating to the first corner, about 50m from the braking zone is RETARDED. OMG I can’t stop laughing that you think this was the FIRST thing that Max should have done. OMG!!!! I mean WTF??? Please, GOD I am laughing so hard. WTF planet are you living on that you think this was the move? Please? People MOVE LEFT AND RIGHT and GIVE SPACE in the opening of a race. Except Vettel and Kimi and they blew the WDC for Vettel with this stupidity. And EVERY person who comments on F1 all agreed with WTF was Vettel and Kimi thinking. Haaaaaaaaaaa. WOW you are too much, too dumb, too crazy.
Haaaaaa, you are saying that I said the wrong words and only YOU know what I REALLY meant? Wow you are a piece of work aren’t you. When you are wrong you twist the words of the other person around. Haaaa. Now tell me again how you know what I mean, and not what I SPECIFICALLY said. Loser. Loser, loser loser arrogant piece of…
You NEVER cited them. I quoted them. You quote the 2017 rules on overtaking here? NEVER. You are a total liar.
Let it go you loser. Same comment, cut and paste, and nothing to what I have said to refute this. You are melting down. Loser.
I love this gif. I am laughing at you. Do you see how Vettel starts moving BEFORE Max moves. That is not what you said. Liar.
Do you see that black line in front of Kimi. Do you see how he moves to his right at the end just before the crash. Watch that mark in the bitumen and you will see it. Liar.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fa137aeb65acfcc58da79aac1b95d06e29953d3dc51a995eb7fc71e72ea9cdcb.gif
Whatever you are trying to post isn’t working. Much like your “TRUTH”.
The *exact* distance Seb is from Max in this photo (which I rounded to two meters – which seems more accurate than rounding to three meters, or one meter) isn’t as important as the fact that if Max had plenty of time and attention to decide to turn left AND hit the brakes, then he clearly had time to *just* hit the brakes, and avoid hitting Kimi and Seb. Which was Max’s obligation, per your rules.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5bce7b52f03c8f785c67a1d8b6824d5fa18f2322d1728be63a7911063d7cb2d6.png
It’s now at that point where the humor of laughing at you is not worth the time spent on you. The video is clear, the facts are clear, the rules are clear, the outcome is clear, Vettel and Kimi cost Vettel and Ferrari the WDC. Retarded. I’m blocking you. It’s too much. You are so dumb it’s crazy, to say that Max should have braked on the straight at the start of the race. Beyond retarded. Insane. Crazy. Loser. Liar. Endless lies, endless BS. Blocked. Now I wonder how many comments you will make before you get that I can’t see them. Hopefully a lot.
Me too! It shows how much time Max had to simply hit his brakes, instead of steering into Kimi AND hitting his brakes – which obviously took longer.
“I am laughing at you.”
You are SO DUMB to think that a driver causing a multi-car pile-up is anything but “absolutely critical”.
And there was no one within five or six car lengths behind Max. AND he only had to slow down enough to drop back a couple of meters. Cars slow down this much all the time to avoid hitting the car in front of them.
You have already admitted that Max braked *after* he interlocked wheels with Kimi, so the issue is not braking.
The issue is why Max was stupid enough to brake just after interlocking wheels with Kimi, instead of just braking and *not* interlocking wheels with Kimi.
Nope. You misquoted yourself *regardless* of what you meant.
I cited them as “your rules”: “I used your rules as the basis of the argument”. Wherever you got them is on you.
You had a problem with the inclusion of “interlocking wheels” so I removed it, and the point is still exactly the same:
If Max had plenty of time and attention to decide to turn left AND hit the brakes, then he clearly had time to *just* hit the brakes.
And turning left and “HOPING” you don’t hit someone is categorically stupid when he could have *just* braked.
Per F1 rules, according to you, Max had to give way to Kimi. Kimi did *not* have to give way to Max.
I see Max making two large lunges at Kimi, with Kimi going basically straight.
And, in any case, Kimi was ahead of Max at the point you hallucinated his micro-movement so, per the F1 rules according to you, it was Max’s obligation to give way to Kimi.
You know you are beaten so you are limping off in defeat. Got it.
HAAAA! Always your next move, when you are proven WRONG. You block or delete the person’s posts. You are so predictable. Just, like one of Pavlov’s dogs. HAAAA! You, just added another one to a long list of people that have proved you wrong. You can’t ever make a solid argument for your delusions. so, you run away and hide from the conversation. Proof, that you were WRONG HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
You are way past a meltdown, you are just a puddle of sludge on the floor. If, you can’t stand losing then quit trolling people. You are the BIGGEST LOSER here, as many times as you have been proven wrong.
There are only 3 facts on the sites where you post. That is, when I expose you as a troll, a liar, and a fraud. And, those are the only 3 facts that you have never tried to deny. Thank you, for proving me right.